Gasworks To Dome

[Rib has done audio clips to 00:11:58]

Nel Johnson

NJ 16th November 2005 Nelly Ellen Johnson, unmarried name Dawes.

Could you tell me where you were born and when?

NJ Where I was born? The hospital at the top, as far I know,

St Alphage's?

NJ Yeah.

Right.

NJ Used to be the old St Alphage's, and um 8th of the 11th 1921.

Right well happy birthday for last week!

NJ Yeah that’s right! I got me cards and all flowers there from last week.

So um, I know you haven’t lived in this area all your life, um when did you come to this area?

NJ Oh, what year would it be? About 29 years ago.

29 years ago, in the mid 70’s?

NJ That’s when it was yeah.

Ok.

NJ Yeah.

What was it that brought you to live here?

NJ Oh the thing was, um, it was always must be temporary where we lived, and this is where they put us when they moved so many of us from that part, quite a few people came over here from that time.

Could you tell us a bit about the temporary housing you were in before then?

NJ Oh temporary housing we were in before? Well it was um very cold in the winter you might guess and um very sparse you know?

And where was this?

NJ Er in Creekside and the bedrooms were just like box rooms, yes, the living room, bathroom toilet in one go, in one room, and very small kitchen, and um, and as I say in the winter it would be cold, in the summer too hot, and the so we had to manage for about 10 and a half years till eventually they moved us out.

So why were you moved into temporary housing in the first place?

NJ Oh because we needed a bedroom for my girl. I only had the one girl, and we need an extra bedroom where we were living. I only had the one bedroom, and er, this is why we got one, for the simple reason we needed that extra bedroom, needed two bed rooms, and then er, they put us over there in this two bedroom one eventually, but then she was a teenager then.

Oh I should say that we’re sitting in Davern Close.

NJ Yeah we are.

Just off Tunnel Avenue.

NJ Yep.

Um, so what was your impression of this place when you first saw it?

NJ Well to be honest, if I can remember, think back a bit, when I was 13 I lived in this part, near enough in the same part and there used to be a row of Collerston Cottages - yeah yeah that’s it, it used to be Collerston Cottages and I lived there and we lived there for a few years and um where we lived was um damp - I got rheumatic fever, landed up in hospital for 6 and a half months down in Surrey. Once we came from here they won’t let me come back to return from the flat.

So I’m gonna jump back. I hadn’t realised that you lived here in that time, you’d been at St Alphage's so where did you live as a young child?

NJ Oh what- the um- wartime I lived at New Cross

So then you moved from New Cross to here? To close to here?

NJ No, no. No I moved from New Cross down to Deptford

Right

NJ And from Deptford where I only had the one bedroom I got moved to the other place down at Deptford.

The temporary place?

NJ The mobiles.

So when was it that you were here, when you said you where here when you were about 14?

NJ Yep, yeah I was um, not far from where I am now, ‘cause this was Collerston Road- yeah Collerston Road, Armitage Road. In Collerston Rd there was just this flat and row of houses that they called Collerston Cottages and um I lived there.

This is before the war wasn’t it?

NJ Yeah I went to Halstow Road school.

What was that like?

NJ All right I s’pose. Had its ups and downs. You had some nice teachers, you had some horrible ones, push you around and whatever ya know.

Who were the ones you liked?

NJ Er, nobody I really liked, they just got on with different people, and then er, one she was a redhead, I can always remember her- Mrs mid-something her name was, and um when I was er suffering with this rheumatic fever I and, which I didn’t know I had at the time - we were doing dancing, folk dancing, she was pushing me around ‘cause I couldn’t move quick because of what’s happening ya know? And she wasn’t very nice to me, I didn’t really like her and then, um, every time I stood up, sat down, me legs ached and this is what happened, I ended up in hospital with rheumatic fever.

How did you find out it was the damp that had given it to you?

NJ Er well apparently they said it was the damp place where we lived and when I came out of there they said, “You can’t go back to that place where you came from ‘cause it's damp.”

So in the house itself in Collestern Road could you see the damp in the house?

No, oh no! No I don’t know how they found out it was damp - I had to go to County Hall and get examined and all the rest of it, sitting down, lying down doing all these things before they decided this is what was wrong and this is where you had to go, and er, as I said, in the hospital - all flat and you had all these lovely hills and greenery beautiful really ya know. You were only allowed a visit once a week, yeah I'm talking about years ago, and er, I come out of there- I came home just as I was turned 14 you left school at 14 then. So I don’t go to work for awhile then when I did I got a little office job and er, that’s how it carried on from there.

I’m still just slightly confused because you lived in New Cross and then in Deptford this time you lived in Coniston Road. Is that before New Cross or after New Cross?

Yeah I was in New Cross during the war

Right so before the war where were you living as a child?

As a child? I originally- when I was child I lived in Deptford.

Right.
In Hales Street near the shopping center then um, from there, we moved up to Greenwich to this flat, that’s the only other place

Did you live in Coniston rd?

Oh ok. So how long were you there in Coniston Road

What Coniston Road? er I shouldn’t imagine a couple of years? Cause if I came out of hospital when I was 10 fourteen, I would already of left school, well I was only at New Cross during the war

Could you tell us a bit about your parents? A little bit about your parents?

My parents? Oh my mum was at work, my dad always worked for him self then when he came out of the army he went to work other than that you know and um, mum used to um, she moved into a sheltered place to be near me down the bottom of the High Street and she was there till she died. Apparently we went on holiday to Jersey - funny twice to Jersey and twice me parents died. It come on both times. And er, she must have had kidney trouble but she wouldn’t go to hospital or anything ya know? She kept being sick ‘nd that you know. Took her out for a drink the night before we went on holiday, left the address of the hotel and everything we were at, I didn’t know they’d put out an S.O.S. while we were out there, but we’d never heard it, and er, we were there- well she died whilst we were away so we had to home before time naturally, and erm, when we got home this had all happed ya know. So we had to sort all that out. Then um-

Could I just jump for a bit? I am wanting to focus on this area, of the time when you were here.

On this area?

Year

Yeah

So when you were a teenager here, yeah? Do you remember how you spent your time?

Er, well I was er, friendly with a lot of the girls here, there used to be a sweet shop on the corner and erm, they all lived around here and we just used to go round at night time in a little crowd of girls and spend out time chatting and that ya know. I must have all lost contact with them once I moved away, so I wouldn’t know ‘em even if I saw them I don’t think now, but we all went to Halstow Road. And erm, didn’t do a lot really ‘cause they weren’t a lot of things you could do in those days. We all played skipping and what ever, ball games but hen there wasn’t so much traffic in those days, was there?

No

Lets face it. Now-
Yeah?

Pardon?

Carry on.

Now you’ve got traffic every where, you couldn’t play ball I the street now.

So you used to play in the street then?

No we don’t- that was a football pitch over there.

But then when you were 13 or 14, you used to play in the streets?

Yeah, yeah played skipping, all those sorts of things, just played different games or whatever. But then you weren’t out late at night like they are now. You had to be in at a certain time. So lots of things have changed since then.

Were you still able to walk through the tunnel in those days?

I can’t remember. I can’t remember if we did. I can remember all the tin hats used to be round here.

What were they?

They’re homes, but tin huts.

Oh

Lots of my friends lived in them as well. As I say, we used to have these big tin huts, and erm, people lived in them. Must have been cold in the winter same as ours were, but erm, we had the blow out heating - oh that was awful that was, we had it here when we first came here and it wasn’t till nine year ago they changed it all over the estate, they left mine and a couple of other people and erm, at that time I was ill, I’d been in hospital and er, I had bowel cancer. When I came out the nurses fought to get it sorted. That’s how I got this heating done and erm, over this now period I have been in and out of hospital for other different reasons. But nows it’s me breathing, ya know, asthma, now I got a collapsed lungs so they told me, so I’ve been in there again, so erm, this is why its so warm in here to what it was. The nurses used to say, “you can’t afford to catch a cold!” and it was them that fought for it they got it done for me. Couldn’t do it for six weeks. Yeah as soon as they got on to them, the same night they came up to measure up for it. that shows they can.

These tin- these tin huts as they were, were they for families?

Yeah! I think so.

Where exactly were they, do you remember? Were they up black hall lane?

They was down Blackwall Lane, all them parts that had been built on there ya know and right down where a lot of these millennium business is.

Is this in the 30’s?

Yeah

So what about the all the gasworks, the gasworks? The gasworks must have taken up some parts?

Oh yeah that was all down there.

Did you used to go down there?

I never used to go down that way, not at all. But people from our school went there, ya know, lived there, but er, as i say used go round the tin huts do like em- oh what are they called- sliver? What they called that silvery stuff?

Steel?

Steel!

The out sides were like steel. But people lived in them and seemed to be comfortable. So they lived in them for years before they pulled them down.

Did you eve go down to the river?

Er yeah, did used to go round the river. I can remember years ago when my dad was alive because he died before he retired. He um, had a crack on the back of his head and he went paralysed down one side and er, that was when Miller Hospital was open, and he ended up in there- I think he was dead within a fortnight because they didn’t know what was wrong with him. And my mum never though to say what had happened, he went into the shed and a metal thing came down and hit him on the head.

What were you going to say about the river?

About the river?

Me and my dad- when I went to school, when things were very tight we used to go round the river with him, and we used to pick up all the wood for the fire. And erm ya know big logs. And he had this like trucker thing he made, a wooded truck to bring it home, that was er, a regular thing.

So you didn’t sell it you just used for your own fire?

Oh yeah for our own fire, yeah, that’s when you had fires, but um, that’s the only time we went round the river. My father was one for the river, he liked ships, he liked the boats he was always down the pier and places like that.

But what did he work in?

He worked um, to be honest, he was in the army, he went to Egypt but when he came out he worked for the borough and what else did he work for…er… yes I think he was working for the borough when all this happened to him, ya know.

And do you know what he as doing for the borough?

Er, I don’t really know, nothing special I don’t think it was, no he never had a job once he came out the army with um, trade. When my husband came out the air force he went straight into a trade he used to do the instruments on the planes, but when he came out he went into a carpenters course. So he was a carpenter for the rest of his time, didn’t earn much but it paid out later on in years. And then I think we were only there for two years before he died he had pancreas cancer, but he was a worker he worked all hours god almighty! You wouldn’t dream anything was wrong with him but it all come on sudden.

When you first came here in the 70’s from the temporary housing what did you feel about these houses?

What did we think about them? Well to us they were lovely we thought cause they were just finishing this one off and having a side gate and everything and erm, we were trying to suite ourselves you know. And we were quite happy here really.

Has it changed a lot, living here?

Oh yeah, yeah. You’d be surprised. The people’s that moved over here right, other ten those flats alone they were all old peoples flats but you got everybody in them now, children, you got couples, you got single people or you got foreigners all sorts. There’s only one person over there that I know of that’s been there from the very beginning there was her and her sister but her sister died recently.

So when you first moved here then, did it feel like a community to you?

Yeah lots of people knew one another but now nobody knows anybody not like it used to be.

Did you have to do anything together?

We had a- our communal hall was over the corner and we used to have parties, we had bingo, we had all sorts of things going on, had clubs, all the lot over there. Then suddenly we all got chucked out and all it is is a nursery now. They er, had um, a Christian lot in there, council lot they were, they got some out of Greenwich, they let them take over left the windows open, they flooded it out, had all new furniture they had to have it all done up the council. And the thing was they used to throw babies nappies all over everyone’s gardens it was terrible, and the noise!

Not the Christian group surely?

The er, the er, yeah! Yeah! And thing was so noises it had to have them down to count down the disables where it was so noisy

Is that because the services were noisy? What was it that was noisy? It’s just this group?

Yeah! Used to come there every Sunday and they made all this noise with all these singbirds oh it was terrible over there and apparently people complained so much from the houses along side, Sunday afternoons when they wanted a bit of peace and eventually they got put out. Apparently they got put out from over Greenwich as well where they were so noisy, is it Thames Street?

Don’t know.

Somewhere down there. The church place they had down there and er, we’ve never been allowed in there since. Yes- must have been from this estate.

There is a community center opened now though at the other end isn’t there?

Oh yeah, that’s opened now

I used to go there, but that shut down again, that didn’t last long but er, then I go round to ChristChurch Friday afternoons to therapy now that’s for breathing and erm, I go down to Colestern house because a lot goes on down there, we’ve been going down there for years because once that’s shut she lets us go down there. And lots of us have kept them going.

So what goes on at Coniston house?

Er, they have bingos few nights, we have a cup of tea, they have quiz nights all things like that but its annoying ‘cause I can’t get down there with my breathing. So I was a bit annoyed really I managed it on Mondays first day I managed to walk down there, cause I can’t walk far with out (hard breath) like that all the time ya know? And er, I walked round the block only because I was going round to therapy I was gonna try ‘cause you have to try and achieve things ya know. So I’ve walked round the block once this week, I’ve been out twice on me scooter with me daughter whilst she’s been over but I’ve not been out since and er, if we go shopping she takes me in the wheel chair, ya know, because I can’t walk round the shops. She took me up the top with me scooter and erm, we went- done some shopping at the top there, and erm, that’s how it is, I’ve got things here but I haven’t got the confidence to go out on me own, yet. I’m all right on it, keep practicing indoors cause sometimes I can walk from here to the kitchen some days. And upstairs, its murder to go up stairs so I have to wait for my opportunity for that and er, as I say I’ve had four lots since June in hospital with this chest business and er, they did a ct scan and I’ve got this lung collapse, the left lung, the tops gone in ya know?

Can I jump again? Can I just jump back again? To when you were a teenager here in Coniston Road. When I’ve spoken to other people round here who were here in the thirties, they said it was quite a poor area, did it feel that way to you?

Yes, ‘spose it was really, cause I can remember years ago, my gran, my mum’s mum she was a lady that used to forage she never worked she had a big family and erm, she used to erm , buy second hand clothes and she used to wash and iron them, put them in a bag, get on a bus- tram, from Deptford to Greenwich over here and she had all her regular customers round this area, so it must have been a poor area for her to come over. That money used to buy her- help her with her food, apart form- cause she was a widow then, and she had my cousin living with her with her boy, she only had the one bed room flat, but she used to forage round but she- half a point of porter, tat used to buy her half a pint of porter. So she did that regularly, every Saturday that was her regular thing.

Was that while you were living here?

Pardon?

Was that around the same time that you were living here?

No I wasn’t living here then.

She just come over on her own with a big white bundle, all this clothes packed in. she had al the regular customers- come home empty where they’d bought all the stuff ya know? She would do a little bit of shopping with her money and she would half her half a pint of porter she used to put the poker- a brim of poker down the middle of it and drink it.

Why?

This was a thing they did then.

They used to heat up the liquid?

I presume so! I van always remember her doing that putting the poker into a fire, red hot, put it in the jug and warm it up

Hmm

Done something to it, she used to have that regular every week with her money she got, one jug of porter, regular that was.

Again, when you were here as a teenager and you said you would just go out and see your girl friends, where would you go?

We just used to walk around. Tell you what we used to play knock down ginger- terrible! And there were some small turning right round the back, and erm, they used to tie a bit of- ha! I mean you laugh at it now. But they used to tie a bit of string from one knocker to another one- well to us it was funny, but at the time I don’t suppose it was funny for the people that lived there. And as one knocker went they all went! Cause they came round to my mum one day, “oh there a man run after your girl” cause they all come running after me and didn’t I get told off! When they found out what it was all about, I got told off!

You mentioned at school who was that teacher who wasn’t very nice to you, were there any subjects that you enjoyed?

Er to be honest I’ve always been good at figures, English, spelling, I still am to a degree and I’ve always kept it up, but um, I never got anywhere really cause years ago you didn’t have all this exams like you did now.

So how did you decide what you were going to do when you left school?

I didn’t. I didn’t to be honest. When I left school as I say I come out of hospital, I had a rest, said I weren’t going to work right away, which I didn’t. I worked in an office for one day and there was rats in the canteen. I ran out of there - my dad didn’t let me go back there.

Where was that?

Up in Old Kent Road somewhere and then er, where we lived in New Cross- the new flat where we had, I worked in um, oh what’s the name of it Ebinesters? It was like a medical place where they did all this bottles of stuff filling them with olive oil, oil of lavender all that stuff they did all on the belt, you had to put the cap ‘em and that you know., I mean I had that sort of job but its like anything else you change from job to job and then erm, I know that one time before, well before I got married. I got married when I was twenty one when I worked in New Cross I worked in new cross cinema cashier I’d take your money, what ever. Quiet a few jobs really until I worked in schools for twenty odd years until I retired. At, at Lewisham

Oh right.

Er, oh isn’t it terrible when you can’t remember a name? The one along Lewisham road. My daughter went there in the infants. She was in the infants, I worked in the juniors so when she was off n the holidays I used to bring her in for dinners in my side, we used t have our diner in our play center and then we used to go off shopping or go to the cinema or whatever.

When you lived here in the seventies onwards how old was your daughter?

Er, when I left here in the seventies?

When you lived here?

When we lived her in the seventies? Oh she was erm, 17 when we moved

So she was already out-

She was only two years when her dad died. He was only 52, so er, he wasn’t all that old and erm, she’s more or less learnt to live with it really you know?

I’m just going to ask you one more question, what do you feel about this area as a place to live now? For you?
Its gone right down to what it was. When we moved here as I say lots of people who knew one another and it was a nice area, you got mixed in with people, everyone went in the hall and, well, ya know did things.

Which hall is that?

Over the corner, where it’s a nursery

Oh right yeah.

Ours was down by St Alphege as I say, they just made it a nursery, we and got slung out. Why I don’t know, we all lived on it. it was a positive thing for this area and um, there are so many decent people, I mean next door she’s a neighbour form where I lived before I don’t see her because she’s house bound. She came here well after these places were open because some didn’t come over here in the beginning he and her son there and then er, quite a lot of people came over here with us either bought the houses, cause I could have bought this one for twelve thousand. More years you lived under the council, the cheaper you got it and at that time I wasn’t prepared to do anything like that to time. And er, she’s just buying here place next door for her son, ya know, for when she goes. But um, there are so many different people who moved here there’s nobody hardly here that you know now. So I can’t say it’s a nice area here at all.

But um, apart for your therapy, do you ever go down to the Forum for anything there?

The Forum? Yeah! We used to go round there a lot.

Do you go there still?

Go to um, different little do’s they had there, Easter do’s and that we used to go. Used to be a pray for us, but round here where I go now, where I can’t go out its because most of my friends that were here either died or moved away with their relative so I’ve got nobody to go with and I won’t go anywhere on my own, naturally if I can help it. I go down to Coniston house now and again if they have anything going down there but I’ve been getting a cab down to there where I can’t walk there and a cab home. They charge four pound each way but I think to my self its to get out you get fed up being in but erm, I try and make, ya know, do what I can. Then me daughter comes over on Saturdays takes me shopping. Have ’ta have a career in every morning now ya know, to cook me breakfast because some time s as I say I can’t move out to there or to the front door, so they put me eventually- they’d done that from the hospital ya know, and er they’re still trying to get things like the stair lift for me.

Quite a big thing.

‘Cause that is the worst thing going up the stairs, terrible! And me bathroom and toilet is upstairs so that is the hardest job, ya know? Stop about four times, I come down sitting down ya know, step by step all things are awkward when you getting things like this.

Have you ever been up to the millennium village, the new housing?

Er, only once. Rode round there once with my girl in the car but I don’t think much of it down there, what I’ve seen of it, it might be better than you think, I don’t know. But one Saturday when we went shopping down there, went all round there, I said, “Never been round there,” and my girl took us round there. I’ve got a nurse coming round form the millennium doctors down there for um, therapy, ya know, breathing- I’ve got her coming tomorrow.

So why did you not take to it? why didn’t you like it?

I dunno, it might have been me! I didn’t like the look of it, maybe it’s the way its built I don’t know.

What does it look like to you?

Aw I dunno, I looked peculiar, I didn’t think it looked like a nice um, I mean we see houses and gardens and that font and back, didn’t seem the same to me, but then again perhaps I didn’t go all round, you see, I just have to go where I’m taken.

Ha! I will leave it there, thank you very much indeed.